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Post by Trailfoot on Apr 3, 2009 12:14:07 GMT -8
Okay, DM's Proposal for Use of the Houserules:
HR001: Approved, though it won't be important for a while. If I see reasons to remove it before it actually comes into play, I'll do so.
HR002: Approved.
HR003: Approved.
HR004: Approved. Every time I run the numbers on Orb of Imposition, it comes back broken. I think this is the lowest-impact fix possible.
HR005: Approved, with two caveats: Feats allowed include skill training, skill focus, multiclass, weapon proficiency, bloodline, and armor proficiency. Others can be approved on a case for case basis. Caveat 2: If this turns out to have greater impact that I expect, I reserve the right to rescind it.
Opinions?
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Post by Shiningwolf on Apr 3, 2009 13:02:12 GMT -8
I am still trying to figure out how your orb is that strong consistently. The only way I have been able to build one that powerful was with pretty specific powers and magic items. I mean, unless you prioritize wisdom over int, than an elite or solo should still be saving on throws of about 15 or above. and its only once an encounter.
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Bladedancer
Fighter
Our only line of defense against the return of the thylacine
Posts: 141
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Post by Bladedancer on Apr 3, 2009 13:31:37 GMT -8
So, I was looking over the item lists today and was hit by an idea that I've had before but I'm not exactly sure how to apply.
One of the things I thought was most useful in the 3.5 version of D&D was the ability to add magical powers to your items without boosting their "level" (in that case, their enhancement bonus) by paying a flat fee of some sort. These were usually things that now don't fit well into the item system we have now - properties like summonable weapons or armor, armor that could change its appearance, the ability to travel to different planes by cutting a hole in the air with your sword, or something as simple as having your staff glow on command.
I'm not sure how best to suggest we apply it, but I'd like to have a houserule that allows customizing items in this sort of way without having to invent a custom item and replace your current one every time you want to give it a minor special effect.
Anyone have a suggestion on applying it?
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Post by Trailfoot on Apr 3, 2009 13:33:55 GMT -8
I am still trying to figure out how your orb is that strong consistently. The only way I have been able to build one that powerful was with pretty specific powers and magic items. I mean, unless you prioritize wisdom over int, than an elite or solo should still be saving on throws of about 15 or above. and its only once an encounter. It's on one EFFECT per encounter. A stun? An immobilize? A daze? A weaken? Elite or solo = turned off. For the whole encounter. It only HAS to be once per encounter.
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Post by Shiningwolf on Apr 3, 2009 14:17:02 GMT -8
I am still trying to figure out how your orb is that strong consistently. The only way I have been able to build one that powerful was with pretty specific powers and magic items. I mean, unless you prioritize wisdom over int, than an elite or solo should still be saving on throws of about 15 or above. and its only once an encounter. It's on one EFFECT per encounter. A stun? An immobilize? A daze? A weaken? Elite or solo = turned off. For the whole encounter. It only HAS to be once per encounter. Sorry, my bad on the writing, but solos and elites all have built in saving throw bonuses. At epic level, all it really does is negate that bonus and add a little something extra. At best you could give a -8 to one effect on a creature, but seeing as solos usually have a +5 to saving throws, that just means they need a 13 to save.
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Post by Shiningwolf on Apr 3, 2009 14:24:03 GMT -8
So, I was looking over the item lists today and was hit by an idea that I've had before but I'm not exactly sure how to apply. One of the things I thought was most useful in the 3.5 version of D&D was the ability to add magical powers to your items without boosting their "level" (in that case, their enhancement bonus) by paying a flat fee of some sort. These were usually things that now don't fit well into the item system we have now - properties like summonable weapons or armor, armor that could change its appearance, the ability to travel to different planes by cutting a hole in the air with your sword, or something as simple as having your staff glow on command. I'm not sure how best to suggest we apply it, but I'd like to have a houserule that allows customizing items in this sort of way without having to invent a custom item and replace your current one every time you want to give it a minor special effect. Anyone have a suggestion on applying it? Well we have an armor that is summonable, so I don't think anything needs to be done about that. But for more rp type effects like appearance changing or light spells on your staff, I would go with something like having either a base ritual component cost to enchant them for certain effects, like 10g for appearance changing, or saying it costs like 1/5 the cost of its currently held enchantment. As far as the plane cutting sword...sounds more like an artifact to me. Though coming up with costs for this stuff if we had specific powers to work with. Or, alternatively, you could just get a wizard to use prestigation and have the dm rule the effects can be a little bit more permanent.
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Bladedancer
Fighter
Our only line of defense against the return of the thylacine
Posts: 141
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Post by Bladedancer on Apr 3, 2009 15:01:15 GMT -8
Shiningwolf,
We already have a set of summonable armor - if you don't want your armor to do anything else at all. Which, in a game where whether you're wearing armor or not is usually more a matter of flavor than anything else, means that you give up the chance to have a nicer suit of armor for a bit of flash.
When the rules require you to do something painful in exchange for a non-mechanical benefit, IMO, they aren't working very well.
On the topic of the plane-cutting sword (which, frankly, I picked as a random example), why would you use an artifact for that? The point of artifacts is that they have will, purpose and volition of their own - a purpose you're cooperating in. It isn't, at least anymore, to model effects that don't fit into "our one-effect-per-item" system. A plane-cutting sword is a tool - an esoteric one, but still a tool - not a legendary and ancient servant of some arcane purpose.
I think probably the easiest method for doing this would be to develop the effect as though it were a Wondrous Item, have it "bought" as a Wondrous Item, and then "attach" it to the item you want to have the power. Which isn't that far off from your ritual suggestion, really.
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Post by Shiningwolf on Apr 3, 2009 15:35:52 GMT -8
I was mostly modeling after the fact that with the sword power, artifacts powers are generally more powerful than your average magic item, mechanically speaking. And the ability to cut a "hole" to another plane seems very powerful to me, outside of epic. It was more of a random comment than anything. For the non-mechanical benefit part...I disagree with you, but at the moment I have no idea why. Maybe getting some sleep in for once might help
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Bladedancer
Fighter
Our only line of defense against the return of the thylacine
Posts: 141
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Post by Bladedancer on Apr 3, 2009 17:41:57 GMT -8
Given that a lot of WotC adventures have extraplanar junkets showing up as early as mid-heroic, I wouldn't think that being able to, say, 1/day create a portal to another plane for you to travel through (by cutting it open) would be inappropriate by mid-to-late paragon.
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Post by Trailfoot on Apr 3, 2009 17:57:28 GMT -8
I don't like the idea of a plane-cutting sword using the standard weapon mechanics for another reason - that ability isn't comparable to a damage increase, push effect, or other combat effect. I'm not saying that it's better or worse - I'm saying that the two of them simply can't be compared, because their impact on the game is so incredibly divergent. Trying to balance a plane-cutting power on a sword with a combat effect is like trying to decide if two feet is more than two kilograms.
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Post by Trailfoot on Apr 3, 2009 18:02:08 GMT -8
I will add...
Effects that do not provide mechanical benefit should not have mechanical cost. Glamored armor would have no mechanical benefit that I can see.
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Bladedancer
Fighter
Our only line of defense against the return of the thylacine
Posts: 141
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Post by Bladedancer on Apr 3, 2009 18:06:55 GMT -8
*nods* I think that the key thing is to try to drag powers that are "neat" but not really comparable to weapon-boosts (Sunsword's light effect, I'm looking at you) or armor boosts (summonable and polymorph armor, I'm looking at you) into a separate corner of the system where they can be dealt with on their own terms, rather than trying to graft them on to the existing power mechanics.
There are any number of ways that could be done - my "deal with it as a wondrous item that happens to share a physical space with the weapon/armor" approach, having some form of ritual that lets you paste on permanent effects, or even giving out a certain number of slots per tier of item customizations that you could use. I think mine is probably the most user-friendly, but all of them are trying to do the same thing - drag the "cool and fluffy" abilities (the ones whose major boosts are narrative, like being able to get a door to another plane open, or social, like being able to hide weapons or armor) away from the "useful" abilities (those with direct combat applications) and deal with them on a separate cost and power track.
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Post by Myridd on Apr 7, 2009 11:17:07 GMT -8
*thinks she should of read these before making her characters... especially hr 005..*
I will choose appropiate feats and just add them to the post where I posted the character sheet? Will that be alright?
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Post by Trailfoot on Apr 7, 2009 11:58:38 GMT -8
Works for me.
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Post by Myridd on Apr 7, 2009 14:50:21 GMT -8
Okay! I would like to propose a feat? It would be useful to my kobold Meepo, and any other rogue type who wishes to carry a whip.
Whip Blade: Prereq. Dex:15 Effect: Whips are now considered to be light blades.
Does anyone think this is overpowering? Its just similar to the mace as lightblades feat..?
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